tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post8571981306361624295..comments2024-03-19T07:10:27.303-07:00Comments on Quark Soup by David Appell: A Sticking Point About the Movie "Alliance"David Appellhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03318269033139447591noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-45647702567420159642016-12-06T21:04:04.975-08:002016-12-06T21:04:04.975-08:00Mark wrote:
"the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis at th...Mark wrote:<br />"the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis at the heart of the story,"<br /><br />Yes, that was definitely a crucial idea in the story, and one I've been enjoying reading about afterwards.<br /><br />"As for the political themes, I teach international relations and political philosophy, so my particular problem with sci fi is that I keep seeing political theory in every story."<br /><br />Curious: Have you come across any scifi stories or movies which you think handled this is a convincing or acceptible fashion? Star Trek, maybe?David Appellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03318269033139447591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-62915094022034249602016-12-06T20:59:38.359-08:002016-12-06T20:59:38.359-08:00Mark Ryan said...
"Sci Fi movies are tough on...Mark Ryan said...<br />"Sci Fi movies are tough on scientists..."<br /><br />Well said :-)David Appellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03318269033139447591noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-19405929056397482612016-12-06T19:11:21.031-08:002016-12-06T19:11:21.031-08:00Sci Fi movies are tough on scientists...
I see yo...Sci Fi movies are tough on scientists...<br /><br />I see your point about how odd it seems that the aliens could not translate an Earth language -but I interpreted the one-way nature of the language problem in the film differently. <br /><br />It is revealed that the aliens non-linear language, and the new cognitive capabilities it enables, is itself the tool/weapon they wish to give humankind. I think for this reason they needed to set up events so that Adams' character has to do all the hard work, progressively immersing herself in the heptapods' experience of reality; I'm OK with the notion that it just could not have worked if the aliens chose the short-cut of communicating in an Earth language. I also tend to prefer that explanation to the idea that, in keeping with the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis at the heart of the story, the aliens simply couldn't think or communicate in a linear times-arrow frame.<br /><br />As for the political themes, I teach international relations and political philosophy, so my particular problem with sci fi is that I keep seeing political theory in every story. I thought the way the story worked through the tension between political realism and liberalism as responses to the presence of extraterrestrials was interesting -one world cooperation without one world government. And I also thought it was interesting that the actions of a Chinese character were central to resolving the story. <br /><br /><br /> <br /><br /> Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15427410783634375334noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-32731224562581233312016-12-05T07:00:20.928-08:002016-12-05T07:00:20.928-08:00My reaction was similar to those expressed here. ...My reaction was similar to those expressed here. The one interesting gimmick was to realize that Amy Adams' memories and dreams of her child were from the future, rather than from the past. But, this was more a director's trick. The future time with the living child was presented before the main plot, in order fool the viewer.<br /><br />I was disappointed in the weakness plot excuse to have an imminent attack on the ships. I could imagine an immediate attack, although that would be foolish against a far superior technology. But, when the translation was coming along with no belligerant actions, the attack was merely a plot device to create tension. It worked, but it was cheap.<br /><br />CheersDavid in Calhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10222355423128534221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-19805833696174235432016-12-05T06:05:50.308-08:002016-12-05T06:05:50.308-08:00Yeah I was disappointed. As soon as you introduce ...Yeah I was disappointed. As soon as you introduce telepathy or "visions of the future" into hard-core science fiction, you might as well go off and watch Dr Who or Deep Space Nine. It was a pity because the movie started off OK. And just because a great big spaceship was involved does not mean it actually WAS a ship, there was some evidence to show it was more like a portal. And the dialog was hard to hear, seems to be an IMAX thing.<br />- the way non-linear time was portrayed was "wrong" in the sense that they were receiving information from the future which is a no-no and a lazy plot device.<br />- the squids wanted humanity to learn their language as it was the gift they were giving them in exchange for humanity helping them in the future. Did they call it a "positive sum game"? Learning THEIR language enabled the protagonist to see into the future. Each of the 12 ships concentrated on a different aspect of the language (it was taught as game-theory to the Chinese for example).<br />- the language symbols were circular as they were based on ink-rings, presumable because the aliens were squids. I did think this bit was clever. Think about it, an ink-ring cannot be draw linearly, it has to be created complete. So this is why the squid thought non-linearly due to the "Sapir–Whorf hypothesis".Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-61759947736482345982016-12-05T02:56:40.046-08:002016-12-05T02:56:40.046-08:00It's called Arrival in the UK too.
The non-li...It's called Arrival in the UK too.<br /><br />The non-linear time stuff bothered me too, though mainly from a storytelling perspective rather than philosophical or scientific - it added another dimension (literally) which seemed to distract rather than enlighten. On the other hand it really heightens the sense of language and communication influencing perceptions of the world, which was the whole point.<br /><br />I'm not sure if it was intentional but the scene near the end with the Chinese General at a party really reminded me of Lost Highway. Another film with a non-linear, in particular circular, sense of time.PaulShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01643816417186967638noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28837843.post-36839409176674958702016-12-04T22:29:16.017-08:002016-12-04T22:29:16.017-08:00The movie is called "Arrival" in other c...The movie is called "Arrival" in other countries like Australia?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11552461190113661645noreply@blogger.com