And that's what it is -- an attempted coup d'etat. Biden won handily, and by tens of thousands of votes in PA, AZ, GA, NV, WI, and MI, and there is no evidence of fraud whatsoever. Trump and Republicans are trying to manufacture fraud out of thin air, lying all the way, losing court case after court case. The Republican party is spineless and should be abolished. Mitch McConnell indicates he is fully on board with this attempt to subvert the voter's will. Secretary of State Pompeo made a smart ass comment that the transition he's preparing for it Trump's second term. DOJ's Bill Barr said he's officially investigating fraud -- it's so disgusting his chief lawyer in the Election Fraud division quit. The White House Press Secretary has accused the other side of fomenting fraud. The Texas Lieutenant Governor is offering a reward for evidence of fraud. Georgia senators Perdue and Loeffler called for the resignation of the state's secretary of state
and presented no reasons or evidence whatsoever. What is going on?? It is a coordinated attempt to steal the election and give Trump a second term. Because he is such a twisted psychopath he cannot accept losing and being a loser. And most of the Republican party has decided that's just fine, let's help him steal the election.
He's lost every case and the fraud just isn't out there. They look like the Keystone
Cops running around, but they're very serious. It's a national embarrassment, as Biden said today. Not one of them care that they are damaging American democracy. That's the second-to-last thing on Trump's mind -- last is COVID, which is rampaging.
If SCOTUS somehow gets involved and somehow, someway calls Trump the winner, the protests and riots of this past summer will look like children playing in a sandbox. I will join in marches myself. We have a fascist in the White House and a lunatic. He hasn't called for the Proud Boys yet; let's see if it comes to that. I feel like a fool for being thankful for such a small favor.
David - I was surprised to see you write, "there is no evidence of fraud whatsoever." What's your basis for that allegation?
ReplyDeleteCheers
The basis is that there's no evidence of fraud.
ReplyDeleteIn Erie, PA:
ReplyDelete"Postal worker admits fabricating allegations of ballot tampering, officials say"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/postal-worker-fabricated-ballot-pennsylvania/2020/11/10/99269a7c-2364-11eb-8599-406466ad1b8e_story.html
David - In fact, there is a great deal of evidence. One may question its accuracy, and one may question whether it indicates fraud sufficient to have turned the election, but it's just not the case that there's no evidence at all.
ReplyDeleteCheers
What's the evidence?
ReplyDeleteDavid - If you're really interested, you can find many references at conservative sites. Below are several. Note that many of these points are based on sworn affidavits.
ReplyDeleteI doubt that the evidence is sufficient to overthrow the election, although there's quite a bit. Why did you think there was absolutely none? Because most of the media, including Fox News, are trying to not report it.
Cheers
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/nevada-whistleblower-describes-biden-van-vote-factory-in-signed-affidavit
https://www.theepochtimes.com/pennsylvania-100000-ballots-with-implausible-return-dates_3572942.html?utm_source=newsnoe&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=breaking-2020-11-10-4
https://lidblog.com/sworn-affidavits-showing-voter-fraud/
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2020/11/pennsylvania-voter-fraud-the-lawsuit.php
https://thenationalpulse.com/news/case-against-biden-win/
https://redstate.com/bonchie/2020/11/10/tucker-carlson-hits-his-own-network-in-epic-post-election-monlogue-n277737
Bull. Present evidence if you have it. I'm not going hunting and do the work for you, especially on suspect conservative sites who have lax standards and hearsay. Everyone has a lot of hearsay but no one has any hard evidence. It's clear you don't either -- if you did you'd present it here.
ReplyDeleteDiC wrote:
ReplyDeleteI doubt that the evidence is sufficient to overthrow the election, although there's quite a bit. Why did you think there was absolutely none? Because most of the media, including Fox News, are trying to not report it.
So your evidence of fraud is that no one is reporting fraud, including Fox News.
You need a hard reality check, dude.
No one is reporting that aliens have landed on Earth, either. Therefore they have, right?
David, let's take the first item in your first link, to the Washington Examiner article.
ReplyDeleteWhat was this poll worker's name?
Why won't he tell the newspaper?
What was his supervisor's name that he reported all this too?
Where are the pictures and videos of all this? Everyone can take pictures and videos these days. Where are they???
Where is the Examiner's reporting? Where is their call to the Clark County Elections Office? To NV's secretary of state?
What are the names of the officials in charge of the Clark County Elections Office?
What are local papers reporting about this?
See what I mean? It's all hearsay with nothing behind it except one anonymous man's claims. Remember, the Erie, PA postal worker swore out an affidavit too.
David - Despite your complaint about the first item, it mentions a sworn affidavit by someone who says he saw fraud. That's evidence. Now, the article may be wrong. Or, the person who filed the affidavit may be lying. But, a sworn affidavit of someone who saw fraud certainly would be classified as "evidence." A lawyer could call this person as a witness to give testimony to what he says he saw.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to debate whether there really was "no evidence whatsoever", I invite you to look at every single item mentioned and show that not a single one would be "evidence". I don't think you want to do that. I think you would rather hold to your existing beliefs. I am not surprised. I'm aware that almost nobody ever changes his mind as a result of a discussion like this.
I think the real point is that the evidence is not being reported in the mainstream media, although it is being reported on a number of conservative web sites. There are two possible explanations:
1. The conservative websites are all lying or, at least, are all incorrect about every single bit of alleged evidence.
2. The mainstream media is choosing not to report all of the evidence.
Cheers
David, I'm not looking at every single link you posted. You look at it. If you think there's evidence of fraud, then post it. The Examiner's affidavit is pretty flimsy. They clearly haven't done a single bit of reporting follow up about this. Why not? Where are the pictures of these goings on? The videos? They were said to go on for days. Lots of time for videos and pictures. Yet none whatsoever. That smells fishy. Real newspapers report real names, they don't conceal them. Fishier. No investigation whatsoever. Why didn't this guy go to the local newspapers? The Trump campaign in Nevada? *Nobody* has video? Hard to believe.
ReplyDeleteSo far you've presented no hard evidence whatsoever. Just hearsay.
This says the NV Attorney General received a redacted affidavit with no name, signature, or contact information. Obviously that if fishy and won't do.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.foxnews.com/politics/nevada-election-worker-voting-irregularities-trump-campaign
If there is evidence then bring it forward properly and present HARD EVIDENCE let officials investigate (like they did in Erie) and let Trump take it to court and let a judge decide, which is the way the system is set up.
Biden is up by 36,700 in Nevada, so Trump will need a lot more than this to make a difference, and a lot more than Nevada.
It's still fishy there are no pictures or video, in the age where everyone has a smart phone.
I'm not going to check any other links without a context and without a summary. That's your job if you're making the claims. I have work to do and I'm not going to do yours too. But I'll consider any that seems it has hard evidence behind it and isn't just hearsay.
ReplyDeleteDavid, here are lots of examples of the junk Republicans are trying to claim, which on closer inspection (which they NEVER do) have simple explanations. Nonetheless, they continue onto to shouting about the next pile of crap, not caring one bit about the damage they are doing to American democracy.
ReplyDeleteStuff like this is why I'm not going to listen to anything unless there's hard evidence.
"Trump and allies heap on vote fraud claims, but independent arbiters aren’t buying it." LA Times 11/6/20
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-11-06/trump-voter-fraud-claims-fact-checked
"Among the unsubstantiated allegations were middle-of-the-night ballot dumps, votes coming in after legal deadlines and absentee ballots requested by people believed to be long dead.
"But judges and other independent arbiters have found the charges to be false, misleading or so limited in scope that they could not possibly deliver Trump the thousands of votes he needs to reverse Biden’s lead in states such as Michigan, Wisconsin, Nevada and Georgia.
“The credible path is to actually be able to produce evidence in the individual states to show fraud, to throw the results in doubt. So far we have seen absolutely nothing that would rise to that level,” Benjamin L. Ginsberg, an election law expert and decades-long GOP stalwart, told CNN on Friday. “Bombastic statements do not work in the recount contest proceedings in states.”
"Ginsberg has previously said that he had investigated voter fraud claims for decades and that he and other Republicans never found evidence to show problems widespread enough to alter the outcome of national elections.
"That did not stop Trump, his family and his die-hard supporters from launching a series of dubious claims.
"On Friday afternoon, for example, Donald Trump Jr. retweeted a message from a Trump backer showing a list of voters who had requested absentee ballots in Pennsylvania. The birth dates of all 10 voters were from the 1800s.
“Totally normal for 170-year-olds to be voting in Allegheny County, apparently,” the original tweet said.
"But University of Florida voting expert Michael McDonald has noted that voter rolls often include typos. Actual proof of fraud would have to show that someone used an outdated registration to cast a ballot.
"Similarly, a conservative activist claimed on Twitter to have found scores of Michigan voters who could not have possibly voted legally because of impossible birth dates. The New York Times tracked down some of the voters and found their birth dates had been incorrectly recorded.
“Fact check: Ballots of deceased voters are not counted,” the Michigan secretary of state’s office said via Twitter. “On rare occasions, a ballot received for a living voter may be recorded in a way that makes it appear as if the voter is dead.” But those votes are reviewed and “no one ineligible has actually voted, and there is no impact on the outcome of the election.”
"The counting of the vote also produced claims of fraud from Republicans, as in one small Michigan county that relayed an incorrect vote total to the state. The state GOP chairwoman said that caused “a 6,000-vote swing against our candidates.”
"The problem with this “fraud” — due to a human input error, according to the Michigan secretary of state — was that it was caught and corrected in less than an hour. If it had slipped past, it still would have been subject to review by a bipartisan panel of county election canvassers, who scrutinize all results in Michigan.
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ReplyDelete"Republican poll watchers raised an alert in Chatham County, Ga., when they discovered 53 mailed ballots set aside on table. The observers theorized that the ballots must have come in after the 7 p.m. deadline on election day.
"One hitch in the malfeasance claim: They had no evidence, and when lawyers for the Georgia Republican Party and the Trump campaign admitted that to a county judge, the accusation was promptly dismissed.
"Another GOP contention has been that the party’s observers were not allowed equal access to watch voting and tabulation. That charge caused a particularly tense standoff in Detroit, but the two parties and a group of nonpartisan observers had more than 100 watching spots. At one point Wednesday there were far more people than allowed in the room, said David Porada, an attorney volunteering for the state GOP. So people were turned away until other observers left.
"The Republican minders in Detroit also complained when their view was partially blocked by election workers who used paper to cover windows into the vote-count area. The ballot counters said they felt intimidated by menacing observers and also worried that the ballots themselves could be photographed or recorded by observers from close up.
A woman in Iowa who voted twice. Terri Lynn Rote had the enormous misfortune of bad timing. Right as the candidate she supported, Trump, was drawing attention to fraud cases, Rote decided to try to vote twice in Des Moines, and got caught.
ReplyDeletePhillip Cook was arrested on Election Day after voting twice. He claimed to be an employee of Trump's campaign who was testing the security of the electoral system. He wasn't an employee of the campaign — and the polling location's security worked perfectly well, it seems.
ReplyDelete“ NV Attorney General received a redacted affidavit with no name, signature, or contact information.”
ReplyDeleteOh lord. There is no such thing as an anonymous affidavit. What games are these trump lawyers playing? What is the cost to the cause of democracy? Does trump consider that cause to be so cheap that he should waste it on games?
It seems this is all a fund raising effort to pay off his crushing debt. There is a legal defence fund that trump and the RNC are pushing, however “For each contribution made to the Trump campaign's joint fundraising committee with the Republican National Committee, 60% will be deposited into the campaign's general election account for retirement of debt, or into the campaign's Recount Account if that debt has been paid off. The remaining 40% will go to the Republican National Committee's Operating account. Any additional money would be deposited in the party's Legal Proceedings Account or Headquarters account.”
ReplyDeleteOnce he’s sold the integrity of the American democracy, what will he have left to cover his personal $400,000,000 debt? There may be some national secrets he can sell to influential world leaders. Does anyone believe he wouldn’t stoop so low after seeing what he is doing right now?
I saw that Trump may get up to $100 M for advance on a book. (Ghost written, of course.)
ReplyDeleteDavid wrote, "I'm not going to check any other links without a context and without a summary. That's your job if you're making the claims."
ReplyDeleteYou made the initial claim. You wrote, "there is no evidence of fraud whatsoever." Since you're made the claim, it's your job to support it. I don't blame you for not wanting to go through every bit of alleged evidence. However, I think you should modify your claim.
People could have a reasonable debate over the amount and nature of the evidence. I suppose. However, that would be a tedious effort. I don't particularly want to do that. I doubt if you want to do it, either.
Cheers
David, instead of chastising me, let's see real evidence of fraud.
ReplyDeleteTime and time again you provide none. Instead you'd quibble about what I wrote.
As I wrote, I'm basing my claim on the fact that many articles find no fraud -- such as the NYT article I posted last night -- and the LA Times article -- and Trump losing every court case, and how all the Trump camp claims peter out into nothingness, and now even the Trump camp people are admitting there's nothing there and they're just trying to make it easy on the Big Baby in Chief who just can't tolerate being a loser.
So, yeah, Eric Trump will continue to post dump videos of "burning ballots" and Pajamas Media will post hearsay and there will be anonymous affidavits that gutless news organizations like the Washington Examiner don't even begin report on.
Nobody has any good evidence.
Nobody has any good evidence of Santa Claus either. Can I say that Santa Claus doesn't exist?
Trumps own lawyers can't produce evidence of fraud when pressed to by exasperated judges,
ReplyDeletehttps://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims/
So if DiC has any evidence of fraud he should let Trump know immediately. I think he's looking in the wrong place though. This is what Wikipedia says about epoch times,
The Epoch Times is a far-right[12] international multi-language newspaper and media company affiliated with the Falun Gong new religious movement,...a 2019 report by NBC News showed it to be the second-largest funder of pro-Trump Facebook advertising after the Trump campaign.[18][22][23] The Epoch Media Group's news sites and YouTube channels have spread conspiracy theories such as QAnon and anti-vaccination propaganda
Anyway as usual Trump's behaviour shows that he doesn't care about what's good for the rest of the country, he's just trying to save his own skin.
DiC, do you think we can find any common ground?
ReplyDelete