Since some people seem to have reading comprehension issues, here's a followup statement by my lawyer Roger McConchie with regard to the Tim Ball libel suit: pic.twitter.com/mgcho5j3aK
— Michael E. Mann (@MichaelEMann) August 28, 2019
I am confused by the contradictory statements put out by Mann, Ball and their lawyers. Ball says Mann lost his suit because Mann failed to provide certain material. Ball says Mann had agreed to provide this material in response to Ball's demand in 2017, when Mann requested that the trial be delayed. Mann's lawyer McConchie says it's not the case that that Mann failed to provide materials ordered by the Court. These statements appear contradictory. However, maybe McConchie is splitting hairs. Maybe Mann's failure to provide certain material is why the case was dismissed, but that material was not literally "ordered by the Court." Instead, it was agreed to by Mann in response to a request from Ball.Of course, this is just a hypothesis. However, if there was no tricky wording, then someone must be outright lying.Cheers
Anyone got a transcript of the judge's statement?
I don't, but will try to get one. I think it's here:https://justice.gov.bc.ca/cso/esearch/file/hearingDetail.do?fileID=2215840
DiC, where is Ball saying these things?BTW, Mann didn't "lose" the suit.
David Appell Thank you for the link to the BC court system.This is the text of the order from the bench. Order1) Order that the claim made by Plaintiff be dismissed.2) Costs will follow the event and of the action since the action is dismissed.
David - I believe I gave you Ball's version a couple of days ago. Here it is againAs Dr Ball explains:“Michael Mann moved for an adjournment of the trial scheduled for February 20, 2017. We had little choice because Canadian courts always grant adjournments before a trial in their belief that an out of court settlement is preferable. We agreed to an adjournment with conditions. The major one was that he [Mann] produce all documents including computer codes by February 20th, 2017. He failed to meet the deadline.”Punishment for Civil ContemptMann’s now proven contempt of court means Ball is entitled to have the court serve upon Mann the fullest punishment.https://principia-scientific.org/breaking-fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/What do you mean that Mann didn't "lose" the suit? Do you mean, he merely failed to win the suit? Under that interpretation, a plaintiff can never "lose" a suit. Cheers
Mann won in the sense that the defendant admitted/argued he wasn't popular or credible enough for his words to be taken seriously.
"2) Costs will follow the event and of the action since the action is dismissed."I tried to run this through Google translate but it couldn't recognize the language. (seems there is no option for Lawyerese) ;P
LayzeiI've been searching myself and found this definition.Costs Follow The Event Definition:An award of costs will generally flow with the result of litigation; the successful party being entitled to an order for costs against the unsuccessful party.A general principle of the law of costs that a party who is substantially successful in litigation is entitled to costs.It is a principle only, as in costs, barring a statute to the contrary, the determination is a matter of judicial discretion.
In this case I presume that Tim Ball is the "substantially successful party". I wonder why Michael Mann says "...the Court's order relating to costs does NOT mean that I will pay Ball's legal fees"?
While the principle of "cost follows the event" is that the loser pays the costs of the winner, the winner must submit a request for costs to the court. Ultimately the amount of costs is decided by the judge. I've been browsing a few cases and costs awarded have varied from 100% down to zero depending on a number of factors.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costs_in_English_lawThe above link refers to English law, and Canada follows a similar pattern.
Dr Ball can make any 'conditions' he likes, but unless they are given force by the Judge, they have no legal meaning. The Judge made no such order. Mann's lawyer couldn't be clearer; they complied fully with all requests for information.John O'Sullivan has shown himself more than capable of outright fabrication, I really would advise against relying on anything he posts until you've checked it thoroughly.
Phil - The trouble with Mann's lawyer's statement is that it does not clearly explain why Mann's case was dismissed. Cheers
David in CalThe judge knows, but, until he publishes a written judgement, the rest of us are just speculating.That includes the plaintiff, the defendant and their lawyers.
Entropic man -- don't you think the judge announced his grounds orally when he dismissed the suit?Cheers
I accidently found this:https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/ca/19/02/2019BCCA0223.htmregarding an appeal of Weaver vs BallWe see Ball apparently arguing that a) he's old and sick, and b) his comments have no negative impact.Also, it appears not all Supreme Court decisions are published, so maybe Mann vs Ball may not be published, either.
The judge’s dismissal of Mann’s defamation suit against Tim Ball is now available.https://bit.ly/2mkgdVy
The judge slammed Mann for his delaying tactics and for being unwilling to actually show up in court.“There have been two periods, of approximately 35 months total, where nothing was done.”“There is no evidence from the plaintiff explaining the delay. Dr. Mann filed an affidavit but he provides no evidence whatsoever addressing the delay.”
The judge really seemed to get worked up over Mann’s despicable tactic of filing a lawsuit and then trying to run out the clock on his elderly opponent.“Dr. Ball is in poor health. He has had this action hanging over his head like the sword of Damocles for eight years and he will need to wait until January 2021 before the matter proceeds to trial.”So the whole narrative about Mann wanting his day in court and being delayed by his opponents was just another in a endless series of lies.
The court decision has now been published, and the conclusion clear:Dismissed because Mann didn't push the case forward, NOT because he did not provide any information.https://www.bccourts.ca/jdb-txt/sc/19/15/2019BCSC1580.htm
The Court's decision has been published and a pdf of the decision is available here:https://www.steynonline.com/documents/9740.pdfTo recap, Mann sued Ball and the Court dismissed Mann's lawsuit against Ball. In other words, Mann lost.The main reason is that Mann did not actively pursue the case for two long periods. During the 8 years this went on, three witnesses Ball planned to call to testify, died. Thus, Ball was denied a fair trial.
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