Tuesday, September 29, 2020

Fascist President Wouldn't Condemn White Supremacists

Oh my god, in tonight's Trump told the racist, anti-Muslim, anti-immigration, misogynistic Proud Boys to "stand by."

President Donald Trump hesitated when asked to condemn white supremacists during the first presidential debate on Tuesday evening.

During a segment dedicated to race, Chris Wallace, the moderator, asked Trump, "Are you willing, tonight, to condemn white supremacists and militia groups and to say that they need to stand down?"

Trump tiptoed around the question and instead doubled down that "almost everything I see is from the left wing, not from the right wing."

Wallace pushed back on Trump, along with former Vice President Joe Biden, and again asked him to address right-wing violence.

"What do you want to call them?" Trump asked. "Give me a name, give me a name."

"Proud Boys," Biden said, referring to a far-right group.

"Proud Boys, stand back and stand by," Trump responded.

Stand by for what? Trump is again lying about Antifa being a major threat. (The other day he grouped them with the Klu Klux Klan as terrorist threats.)

And the Proud Boys clicked their heels together and tonight said, like good brownshirts, “Standing down and standing by sir.”


David in Cal said...

Actually Trump DID condemn white supremacists, even though the media reported otherwise. Chris Wallace asked Trump if he condemned white supremacists. Trump responded, "Sure". There was more discussion, but that single word was a condemnation of white supremacists.


David Appell said...

"Stand by" certainly nullified the "Yes," and then some.

David in Cal said...

Are the Proud Boys white supremacists? They say not.

Established in the midst of the 2016 presidential election by VICE Media co-founder Gavin McInnes, the Proud Boys are self-described “western chauvinists” who adamantly deny any connection to the racist “alt-right,” insisting they are simply a fraternal group spreading an “anti-political correctness” and “anti-white guilt” agenda.


Layzej said...

The FBI classifies Proud Boys as 'extremist group with ties to white nationalism'. The FBI has warned local law enforcement agencies that “Proud Boys members have contributed to the recent escalation of violence at political rallies held on college campuses, and in cities like Charlottesville, Virginia, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.”

David Appell said...

Why would you believe anything the Proud Boys say about themselves? They're thugs.

Here's an online investigative group, Bellingcat, that say they have some leaked message from the Proud Boys:


Not their problems with BLMers.

Proud Boys brutally Rush, Attack BLM Supporters

This Atlantic reporter cited Bellingcat:


Layzej said...

White Supremacist Group Takes Trump's 'Stand By' Comments As A 'Call To Action'. Suddenly Thomas Friedman's comments from last week don't seem so far fetched.

David in Cal said...

David - apparently the Proud Boys include some black members. They are thugs, but not white nationalists.


David Appell said...

Friedman turned those thoughts into a column yesterday. Probably behind a paywall if you're not a subscriber:

"Trump Sent a Warning. Let’s Take It Seriously.
Our democracy is in terrible danger — more than since the Civil War, more than after Pearl Harbor, more than during the Cuban missile crisis."

By Thomas L. Friedman
Sept. 29, 2020


David Appell said...

David, I think it's sad that you've gotten yourself into the position of now having to defend the Proud Boys.

J. D. said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
J. D. said...

Trump responded, "Sure". There was more discussion

By more discussion you mean the bit where he said that it was only the left that was a problem and the inflammatory bit that the far right were ecstatic about and they've printed it on their tee shirts? They know he didn't condemn them.

David in Cal said...

JD you are linking all right wing groups as if they're all identical. They're not.

Much of the media, as well as our host here, made a false statement that Trump failed to condemn white supremacists. As you point out, Trump did NOT condemn the Proud Boys. But the Proud Boys are not white supremacists. People who criticize Trump's false statements should watch their own accuracy.


J. D. said...

Even if they are not white supremacists, and you seem to be taking their word for it, Trump's latest excuse is that he didn't know who the proud boys were . So when he was being asked to condemn white nationalists including the Proud boys and he said

Proud Boys, stand back and stand by.

But I will tell you what. I will tell you what. Somebody's got to do something about Antifa and the left, because this is not a right-wing problem.

You can't use the excuse that they are not white nationalists because Trump cannot have known they weren't and from the context of Wallace's and Biden's comments would have to have assumed they were. Anyway they are far right thugs and Trump seems to think that they can't be a problem because they are not left wing.

David Appell said...

Southern Poverty Law Center, on the Proud Boys:

"Their disavowals of bigotry are belied by their actions: rank-and-file Proud Boys and leaders regularly spout white nationalist memes and maintain affiliations with known extremists. They are known for anti-Muslim and misogynistic rhetoric. Proud Boys have appeared alongside other hate groups at extremist gatherings like the "Unite the Right" rally in Charlottesville. Indeed, former Proud Boys member Jason Kessler helped to organize the event, which brought together Klansmen, antisemites, Southern racists, and militias."


David in Cal said...

JD - the Proud Boys are a bunch of thugs. Antifa is a bunch of thugs. Although most BLM demonstrators are sincere and peaceful, a large number of those going along with BLM demonstrations are thugs.

In terms of magnitude, Antifa and the thugs who accompany BLM are a thousand times as big a problem as the Proud Boys. The two former groups have been rioting almost nightly in Portland for around 4 months. They destroyed downtown Minneapolis, so much that it may never recover. Their anti-police rhetoric led to thousands of police being injured. Although these groups are not thought of racist, their actions led to the murder of a great many black people. They also destroyed black neighborhoods and burned down numerous black-owned businesses.

In short, Trump was entirely right to point out that Chris Wallace was asking about a minor threat on the right, while ignoring a much bigger threat on the left.


David - the points raised by SPCL are unconvincing, as usual. SPLC is a corrupt organization. It has been much to ready to tar various people and groups as bigots. The Proud Boys are an inter-racial racial organization.

The SPLC goes for the McCarthyite tactic of guilt by association. Based on that approach, the entire Democratic Party would be "proved" anti-semitic, since they embrace Al Sharpton and treat him with great respect. Sharpton not only has used anti-semitic language, he helped stir up a mob to lynch a Jew, simply because he was a Jew.


David in Cal said...

JD and David - A better writer than I makes the same points I did:

America’s cities have been burning over the last four months. Seattle, Portland, New York, Chicago, Minneapolis, Kenosha, Louisville–all have suffered tremendous and possibly irreversible damage. This destruction has come at the hands of the Left, in the persons of Antifa and Black Lives Matter. There has been no rioting, no arson, no looting, by any conservative groups. All such criminality has come from the Left, specifically Antifa and Black Lives Matter, two organizations that act so consistently in concert that there no longer seems to be any distinction between them.


David in Cal said...

Proud Boys, Black Lives Matter leaders hold joint conference: We 'denounce White supremacy'

Washington Times ^ | 10/1/20 | Jessica Chasmar
Local leaders of the right-wing group Proud Boys in Salt Lake City held a joint news conference with a local Black Lives Matter leader on Wednesday to correct the record and “denounce White supremacy"

David Appell said...

David, as I showed you before, the right wing thugs are doing all the killing. You said Antifa killed 20 people, but when asked to prove it, never replied.

Do you value property over lives?

By the way, I’ve been to downtown Portland since the protests began. I lived downtown in that area and I know it well. It was very difficult to see signs of damage. Jersey barriers around the federal courthouse with graffiti on them. Wire fencing. That’s it. You don’t know what you’re talking about.

David Appell said...

When the Proud Boys and their Right-Wing buddies come for Jews, it will be BLM and Antfifa who are the first to get in their way.

David Appell said...

Letting the Proud Boys define themselves is naive. Believing them is dangerous. Ignoring the evidence is stupid.

Layzej said...

a minor threat on the right

The FBI doesn't think so. They've classified the Proud Boys as 'extremist group with ties to white nationalism'. The FBI has warned local law enforcement agencies that “Proud Boys members have contributed to the recent escalation of violence at political rallies held on college campuses, and in cities like Charlottesville, Virginia, Portland, Oregon, and Seattle, Washington.”

Layzej said...

Proud Boy arrested in Portland on six felony charges: https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2020/09/30/proud-boy-arrested-on-six-felony-charges-in-portland/#2f969fdb6e2f

J. D. said...

In short, Trump was entirely right to point out that Chris Wallace was asking about a minor threat on the right, while ignoring a much bigger threat on the left.

Really this from the highly respected Center for Strategic and Internstional studies.

This analysis makes several arguments. First, far-right terrorism has significantly outpaced terrorism from other types of perpetrators, including from far-left networks and individuals inspired by the Islamic State and al-Qaeda. Right-wing attacks and plots account for the majority of all terrorist incidents in the United States since 1994, and the total number of right-wing attacks and plots has grown significantly during the past six years. Right-wing extremists perpetrated two thirds of the attacks and plots in the United States in 2019 and over 90 percent between January 1 and May 8, 2020.

You may be unaware of this because you read blogs like powerline and instapundit which never criticize Trump but Trump gets briefed on these matters so has no excuse.


J. D. said...

And this is from Wikipedia regarding the Boogaloo movement.

Boogaloo adherents say they are preparing for, or seek to incite, a second American Civil War, which they call the boogaloo...
Since 2019, at least twelve people affiliated with the boogaloo movement have been charged with crimes, including the killings of two security and law enforcement officers in May and June 2020 and incidents related to the George Floyd protests.[15][24][25][26][27] In May and June 2020, several companies acted to limit the movement's activities and visibility on their social media and chat platforms.[28][29]


J. D. said...

Well Trump's criticism of Joe Biden during Tuesday's debate for taking sensible precautions against catching coronavirus didn't age very well. The guys a loon.