Wednesday, December 09, 2020

What Does *This* Mean?

We will soon be learning about courage? WTF?


Entropic man said...

Civil War II?

David in Cal said...

Trump is suing to overturn what he believes is a stolen election. He praises his supporters for courage. That's all.


OnymousGuy said...

Only the True Believers support him.

David Appell said...

David, Trump is writing about a display of courage in the near courage, not merely praising his supporters.

Thomas said...

Perhaps he will step down "for the best of the country" while still claiming that he really won?

Layzej said...

He’s been using that phrase a lot. “If somebody has the courage, I know who the next administration will be.”

Entropic man said...

Perhaps the Oath Keepers and the Proud boys will surround the White House in January to stop Trump's removal?

Entropic man said...

Or occupy Congress to stop them ratifying the Electoral College vote.

Lots of interesting things you can do with enough eejits and enough guns.

Thomas said...

Entropic, my bet is on the US army if it comes to guns...

David Appell said...

Really, Thomas? What side do you think the army would take?

I can't imagine it.

J. D. said...

Trump is suing to overturn what he believes is a stolen election.

You conceded the other day that he lies constantly so how would you know what he believes? If he does believe it then he's delusional. He's lost over fifty court cases now, witnesses have been ruled as unreliable and anyone who really believes conspiracy theories like suitcases stuffed with counterfeit votes hidden under tables is delusional too.

He said before the election that the only way he could lose is if the election was rigged. The intention has always been to try and get something to the Supreme Court and then hope the Republican appointees throw out millions of votes and declare Trump the winner. This is an attempted coup.

Thomas said...

David, I believe the Army would make quick work of any Proud Boy rebels. An authoritarian president with a military background could possibly get military support for a coup, but Trump has been way too disrespectful. Replacing a few people at the top isn't enough.

On the other hand I think the Proud Boys and similar groups like strutting around with guns, but don't have the stomach for a real rebellion so I don't think it will get to that point.

David in Cal said...

J.D. Trump is not delusional to believe that the election was stolen, although he might be wrong. There are lots of indications that Biden won by fraud, even though the fraud might not be provable in court.

Now, suppose Trump really believes that the election might have been stolen. In that case, he's exaggerating when he claims that it definitely was stolen. However, that type of exaggeration is normal, just as it's normal for others to exaggerate and claim that it definitely wasn't stolen.


J. D. said...

There are lots of indications that Biden won by fraud, even though the fraud might not be provable in court.

It's indications now is it? So the "suitcases" full of votes "hidden" under desks that you were so confident were proven by video evidence is now forgotten. All the allegations of wrongdoing from Trump supporting observers that would have been easily proven by ballot logs are forgotten too. It's now down to "indications" which are significant enough to excuse Trump's (and his supporters) disgraceful behaviour but conveniently unprovable in court. If there were any evidence they would be able to prove it. If there were credible evidence then Trump and his supporters wouldn't be bringing forth silly conspiracy theories that are easily debunked and courts wouldn't be deeming witnesses to be not credible. Even Republican election officials have said Trump's claims are bunk and begged him to stop before someone gets killed. It's long past the time to provide solid evidence or stop this ridiculous nonsense. What you are doing is shameful.

David Appell said...

Thomas, that's a comforting answer, thanks. I agree -- I don't think there's anyway the top level of the military would support Trump, because, as you wrote, he's been too disrespectful, such as pardoning war criminals, mistreating Gen Mattis, and more.

And, yes, they'd make mince meat of the Proud Boys. Still, the guns they carry are dangerous, I think, and definitely threatening. It's crazy that that is allowed, and says something serious about where America is going, IMO.

David Appell said...

David in Cal wrote:
There are lots of indications that Biden won by fraud, even though the fraud might not be provable in court.

There are not.

What are they? You haven't provided any evidence since election day, just wild guesses. Trump's lawyers don't even present them in court! Because judges will disbar them for unethical behavior.

What happened to all of Sidney Powell's crazy insinuations?

Court cases are now something like 1-49 against Trump. Doesn't that tell you anything, David??

Thomas said...

David, those groups are certainly dangerous to civilians or local politicians without bodyguards, they just aren't able to take over USA. Some of them may turn into terrorists, using violence to disrupt what they see as an illegitimate government. Something like the Oklahoma City bombing is, unfortunately, all too plausible.

David in Cal said...

David - I see possible upside and little downside to the lawsuits. The lawsuits might lead to a review of election procedures. Flaws might be exposed. Better procedures might result

The lawsuits will almost surely fail, either because the election wasn't stolen, or because the fraud cannot be proved with certainty. In that case, Biden will simply become President.

Why are Democrats so upset about these lawsuits? Are they concerned that the suits DO have some validity?


Entropic man said...

David in Cal

" Why are Democrats so upset about these lawsuits? "

There's a phrase in circulation.

"Democracy depends on the consent of the losers."

It is customary in American politics to cast doubt on the competence, moral rectitude and even the parentage of one's opponent.

Until 2016 it was also customary to graciously accept the result of the election, whether in victory of defeat.

Rather like a referee's decision the result of th election was definitive and accepted by all parties.

In 2016 Donald Trump claimed that the election was fraudulent, even though he won. In 2020 he made the same claim and has tried to change the result in the courts.This devalues the result of every election and sets the precedent that the loser can try to overturn the result in court.

Elections in the US will no longer won by the bigger vote but by the better lawyers. When the Texas case goes to the Supreme Court the 2020 election will not be decided by 150 million voters, but by the five majority judges.

And Trump did it. Welcome to the new world.

J. D. said...

Are they concerned that the suits DO have some validity?

DiC: How does undermining confidence in the democratic process have any upsides? How does bringing scores of fantasy lawsuits and telling lie after lie improve the electoral system? How does Trump and Guiliani promoting statements from observers who clearly didn't understand or misrepresented what they were watching help anyone?

What about the fact that Republican observers in the Detroit counting Centre were being ejected by police for disruptive behaviour and not observing proper social distancing or they had to be dragged out for refusing to wear masks correctly because "masks are weaponized against the president"?
Things worsened after Biden went ahead and right wing groups were tweeting messages like,
"Help needed now,go as soon as possible. We are attempting to mount aggressive challenges."
That resulted in twice the amount of challengers in the hall than there should have been, at one point chanting "stop the count". Can you imagine being an election worker at this point. They were probably scared that this would turn violent and also that these people could infect them with coronavirus but if they were rude to them that went into their signed affadavits. And all because a sociopath had convinced them before the election that they could only lose if Democrats cheated.
Them there are the wild conspiracy theories and poll workers doxed and put in danger because people watching video of the count didn't understand what they were seeing.
Like I said yesterday David it's time to stop this nonsense and stop defending a lying sociopath who can't accept that he lost.