Thursday, July 30, 2020

Louie's Lousy Logic

So Louie Gohmert, a Republican from Texas, has COVID-19. He has refused to wear a mask while walking around the Capital. He berated his own staff for wearing a mask in his office after forcing them to come back into the office instead of working from home. 

Gohmert's reason for not wearing a mask? Because he was getting testing regularly for the virus. Perhaps while quarantining he can read up on biology or logic or both. 

Gohmert, who is perhaps one of the dumbest members of Congress (he called an in-person meeting of his staff to tell them he had COVID; in June Gohmert said he'd wear a mask if he got sick), plans to take zinc and hydroxychloroquine to cure his disease, because of course he does. I suppose injecting bleach will be his backup plan.

Louie, who is (of course) a climate denier, claims he thinks he got COVID from the few times he did wear a mask, 
When the Texas Republican later contended to a local TV station that he might have gotten sick because of getting germs on a mask while wearing one, Rep. Jared Huffman (D-CA) tweeted, “This is the COVID version of claiming you got VD from a toilet seat. That hydroxychloroquine must be starting to impair Louis' mental faculties.”
Republican minority whip accidentally called him "Congressman COVID." Now the Capital Hill petri dish is angry and up in arms. 

Also, Herman Cain, who once campaigned for the Republican party presidential nomination, has died from COVID-19. He also opposed face masks, and attended Trump's Tulsa rally two weeks before receiving his diagnosis. In a tweet about Trump's 4th of July part at Mt Rushmore, Cain wrote
“Masks will not be mandatory for the event, which will be attended by President Trump. PEOPLE ARE FED UP!”
It's sad that some people are so bullheaded they have to learn the hard way, and angering they put the rest of us at risk in the process. Not wearing a mask should be enforced, with at least a fine. This again is one of Trump's great failings.


J. D. said...

Very sad that Herman Cain had to pay with his life for his irresponsibility but I wonder how many more will have to die so that Trump can increase his re-election prospects. Just this week conservatives staged an event that was promoted by Fox News, Trump and Donald Jr, where they had doctors suggest that taking hydroxychloroquine was a 100% cure and that people shouldn't wear masks.
Regarding Gohmert, the following is from an article in Politico which provides more evidence that they are willing to put people's lives at risk. Even their own staff.

... after this article was published, Gohmert told his aides in person that he had been infected.

Another aide later emailed POLITICO a "thank you for letting our office know Louie tested positive for the Coronavirus."
"When you write your story, can you include the fact that Louie requires full staff to be in the office, including three interns, so that 'we could be an example to America on how to open up safely,'" the aide added. "When probing the office, you might want to ask how often were people berated for wearing masks."

David Appell said...

Yes, I mentioned some of this in my post. I just cannot get my head around what some people are thinking when they refuse to wear a mask. I just heard that Cain also had cancer that had spread to his liver. A serious pre-existing condition and still he wouldn't wear a mask! And all the more reason why others should wear a mask -- you simply do not know who around you might have pre-existing conditions that makes them especially vulnerable once they have the disease.

David Appell said...

Correction: Cain's cancer, which was years ago but included colon cancer just a couple of years ago, was in remission.

David in Cal said...

I am pro-mask. There's every reason to think that masks help to reduce the spread of the disease. (BTW I consider the WHO and CDC early recommendations AGAINST wearing masks to be an unforgivable blunder.)

I am neutral on HCQ. Some studies have shown it to be quite effective, such as the recent Ford Hospitals study and major studies in India (See "Top medical agency [in India] says its studies show hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection, but regulators in other countries are investigating adverse effects"

Other studies have not found it to be effective. However, its effectiveness may depend on how it's used. E.g. What dosage? At what point? With or without zinc and erythromycin? There are ongoing studies of the drug right now.

We know it's pretty safe, except for people with heart problems, since it has been very widely used for many decades.

I don't know why Trump decided to get so strongly behind a drug that has not been conclusively proved effective. He started at a reasonable position, that it was known to be safe and it and anecdotal evidence showed to be effective However, over time, his support for the drug became stronger than it should be.

OTOH I strongly disagree with those who rail against HCQ. There's no scientific consensus that it's not effective. There are good reasons to think it MIGHT be effective. My impression is that HCQ opponents oppose HCQ because Trump supports it.


David Appell said...

Here's one reason why people are against HCQ -- the FDA warns against it:

"July 1, 2020 Update: A summary of the FDA review of safety issues with the use of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine to treat hospitalized patients with COVID-19 is now available. This includes reports of serious heart rhythm problems and other safety issues, including blood and lymph system disorders, kidney injuries, and liver problems and failure."

nowadaysclancycantevensing said...

96% of the planets human population lives outside the United States.

Why are there no other nations on the planet using hydroxychloroquine if it is effective treatment in any sense?

Oh right, according to some they don't use it only b/c Trump supports it.

David in Cal said...

nowadays - Repeating my comment and link:
(See "Top medical agency [in India] says its studies show hydroxychloroquine can prevent infection, but regulators in other countries are investigating adverse effects"

Then, there's Spain


nowadaysclancycantevensing said...

DavidinCal, you concluded in capital OTOH letters that opponents to hcq do so simply b/c Trump supports it.

i simply pointed out just one of the many reasons to the utter ridiculousness of your conclusion.

As for your Spain / India - In a 9 June article Sciencemag reported Spain found in a randomized study of 2300 patients no difference between hcq / non hcq treatments.
India, it seems, is also rethinking its use of hcq at this time.

good luck with whatever future Trump sycophancy you can try to magnify.

Entropic man said...

This might become a new fashion.

Using Covid-19 as an excuse to postpone elections and stay in power longer.

J. D. said...

BTW I consider the WHO and CDC early recommendations AGAINST wearing masks to be an unforgivable blunder.

Unforgivable? You find an excuse for almost everything Trump says and does but can't excuse that. We had this conversation once before and as I said then there was a shortage of all protective equipment at that time and the last thing they wanted was for front line medical staff and care workers to be competing for supplies with the general public. The CDC's website had advice for what to do at that time if they were running out of masks. For instance if they were running out of surgical masks they should cancel non emergency operations. IIRC you said they were specialized masks but if you tell the general public they need to buy masks that are already running out they will buy whatever they can lay their hands on. I seem to remember that at that time even nurses were having to sometimes use whatever they could lay their hands on. Who should the CDC be protecting, the general public who can mostly social distance or front line workers who can't?

J. D. said...

I am neutral on HCQ...OTOH I strongly disagree with those who rail against HCQ. There's no scientific consensus that it's not effective. There are good reasons to think it MIGHT be effective. My impression is that HCQ opponents oppose HCQ because Trump supports it.

You would get that impression from reading instapundit or watching Fox News. It seems to me that it's only Trump supporters who have expressed certainty since the beginning. Outside of the conservative echo chamber there seems though to be a growing consensus among experts that it's not a cure. This is what Dr. Deborah Birx said recently
"We know in the randomized controlled trials to date – and there's been several of them – that there's not evidence that it improves those patients' outcomes," she continued. "Whether they have mild, moderate disease or whether they’re seriously ill in the hospital."

The reason Trump has been rightly criticized is that he has absolutely no expertise but that doesn't stop him from forcefully expressing an opinion. At one press conference after he once again was hyping the drug up a reporter asked Fauchi what his opinion was and Trump wouldn't let him answer. It's got so bad now that Trump retweeted a video of a doctor, who has previously said that gynecological problems can be caused by demons, because she says she's treated hundreds of coronavirurus patients and hydroxychloroquine cured them all. It would be funny if we weren't in the middle of a pandemic when accurate information is essential.

J. D. said...

Fauchi said during his congress testimony today that no randomized placebo-controlled trial has shown that hydroxychloroquine works as a Covid-19 treatment. When asked about the Henry Ford study he said

"The Henry Ford hospital study that was published was a non-controlled retrospective cohort study that was confounded by a number of issues, including the fact that many of the people who were receiving hydroxychloroquine were also receiving corticosteroids, which we know from another study gives a clear benefit in reducing deaths with advanced disease. So that study is a flawed study, and I think anyone who examines it carefully, is that it is not a randomized placebo-controlled trial," Fauci explained.

Fauchi is one of the world's leading experts on infectious disease but then everyone who meets Trump seems to think he's a leading world expert on everything. This is him whilst visiting the CDC

"You know, my uncle was a great person. He was at MIT. He taught at MIT for, I think, like a record number of years. He was a great super genius. Dr. John Trump. I like this stuff. I really get it. People are surprised that I understand it. Every one of these doctors said, 'How do you know so much about this? ' Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president."

I just don't know who to believe.

David Appell said...

JD, will it make a difference if Hong Kong has elections or not? Is it a lost cause? (That was quick. Trump barely uttered a word.)

David Appell said...

"BTW I consider the WHO and CDC early recommendations AGAINST wearing masks to be an unforgivable blunder."

David, I agree WHO made a mistake, but agree with JD on the word "unforgivable." WHO is hard to figure out sometimes, and there seems too much global politics in some of their decisions. (Still disagree with withdrawing US funding through.) Fauci said the CDC's early decision was because of a shortage of PPE and they needed to save masks for health workers. I can accept that; they had a dilemma. Of course, there shouldn't have been a shortage of PPE to begin with, and that can't be blamed on Obama, as Trump had 3 years to deal with any shortage. (Instead he killed the pandemic committee.) It was the reason I didn't wear a mask through most of March, though.

David Appell said...

nowadays, this latest doctor Trump brought up recommending HCQ is just completely unbelievable. He knew nothing about her whatsoever except she said some words on a video clip. She's a crazy person, literally. She believes and says crazy things. You really have to question her sanity. And he's promoting her. This is so asinine stupid it's impossible to even parody it.

Trump keeps digging his own hole deeper. He is not a smart man.

David Appell said...

"I just don't know who to believe."


Entropic man said...

Isn't there something in the Constitution about this?