Trump is campaigning speaking at the White House today, and his audience is a conservative group called Blexit, which WaPo describes as "a campaign to convince African Americans and other minorities to leave the Democratic Party." Lining up to get in, naturally very few of them were wearing masks.
The leader of Blexit is Candace Owens, who went on a rant when a police woman stopped her and her husband at Whole Foods for not wearing a mask. But more to the point today, she once said that Hitler would have been OK if he had just stuck to Germany. Really.
Here is video of Candace Owens' full answer on nationalism and Hitler pic.twitter.com/NfBvoH8vQg
— John Whitehouse (@existentialfish) February 8, 2019
46 comments:
David - To banish a person's views and call her "dumb" by finding a single objectionable comment results in an inaccurate appraisal of the person. Partisans on both sides do this. It makes intelligent dialogue difficult.
I don't know what Candace Owens's IQ is, but I do know that she handled herself magnificently in the face of attacks during Congressional testimony. Watch this six minutes. Note how skillfully and effectively she spoke. Few of us could handle the situation as well as she did.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cUQqPxw3hc
Cheers
P.S. Note her ranking of problems affecting the black community, starting with father absence, education, and illiteracy. IMHO she's right. These problems deserve a lot more attention than white nationalists.
I think Candace Owens is an attention seeker who has said many dumb things. As are so many conservative attention narcissists these days. She is a blight on America and a fungus on discourse in this country. Here are several of the stupid things she’s said, copied from the Wikipedia entry on her:
“In May 2018, Owens suggested that "something bio-chemically happens" to women who do not marry or have children.
She has argued that police violence against black people is not about racism,[55][58] and referred to police killings of black people as a trivial matter to African Americans.
In a 2019 hearing on hate crimes, Owens referred to the KKK as a "Democrat terrorist organization".
After the 2017 Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville, Virginia, Owens said that concern over rising white nationalism was "stupid".[3]
In 2018, Owens dismissed reports of a resurgence in hate crimes, saying "All of the violence this year primarily happened because of people on the left."[54]
On Facebook, Owens wrote "I proudly self-identify as an Uncle Tom".
During her April 2019 testimony before the House Judiciary Committee on the rise of hate crimes and white supremacists in the United States, Owens made the claim that the Southern strategy employed by the Republican Party to boost its appeal to racist voters was a "myth" that "never happened". This was disputed by several historians who said that the existence of the Southern strategy was well documented in contemporaneous sources dating back to the Civil Rights era, with historian Kevin M. Kruse, who writes about modern conservatism, calling Owens's statement "utter nonsense".
Owens rejects the scientific consensus on climate change,[70] telling Joe Rogan in an interview, "I don't believe in it."
She has made the false claim that the NRA was founded as a civil rights organization that trained African Americans to arm themselves.[45] To the contrary, PolitiFact has shown that the NRA was founded by Union Civil War veterans to improve soldiers' marksmanship.[72][73]
In June 2020, she falsely claimed that George Soros paid people to protest the killing of George Floyd.
Shortly afterwards, she argued that George Floyd, "was not a good person. I don't care who wants to spin that."[99] She said, "The fact that he has been held up as a martyr sickens me."[99]
In a Facebook video with nearly 100 million views, Owens called Floyd a "horrible human being", citing his criminal record, and called racial biases among police a "fake narrative."
In April, she claimed that COVID-19 deaths were overcounted; health experts argued that it was more likely that COVID-19 deaths were undercounted.[103]
In a July 15, 2020 tweet that was crossposted on Facebook, Owens called the pandemic a "#Scamdemic", implying that no shutdowns should have taken place while also noting the incorrect COVID-19 mortality rate which was subsequently fact checked.[104]
Regarding a coronavirus vaccine, she said "under no circumstances will I be getting any #coronavirus vaccine that becomes available. Ever. No matter what."[105] She referred to Bill Gates as a "vaccine-criminal", and said that he and the WHO used "African & Indian tribal children to experiment w/ non-FDA approved drug vaccines."[106][107]”
David, I don't find that video that impressive. She gets huffy, which isn't a substitute for an argument. She does successfully counter some of the accusations made against her, but to argue that white supremacy -- viz black subjugation -- has had no impact on African Americans is extremely naive, IMO.
Regardless, she still says a lot of dumb things. She thinks she gets an opinion on everything, whether she's qualified or not. Climate change? Biochemistry? She doesn't even have a college degree. Part of being smart is knowing what you don't know and not opining about what you don't know . Hence Candace Owens isn't smart.
David - I think a black person knows more about the black community than you do.
Granted your POV is predominant among the liberal community, but IMHO it's wrong. This is a terribly important subject. You can't cure an illness if you misdiagnose the cause. Focusing on white supremacy is not going to help blacks. In fact, it's hurting blacks, because it's resulting in weaker police protection and a lot more black murder victims. As Owens points out, blacks need stable two-parent families and better education. IMHO other important needs are lower crime and more jobs available in black communities. That's why Trump's policies will actually help black Americans.
Cheers
David - I think a black person knows more about the black community than you do.
That also applies to you but anyway Candace Owens is hardly representive of the black community. She is a Trump propagandist who apparently has no problem helping organize another rose garden superspreader event.
The wiki quotes D.A. posted above show that her views are not evidence based. She has also pushed coronavirus conspiracy theories and suggested that the only problem with Hitler was that he was a globalist. In fairness this seemed to be more to further her claim that nationalism, including white nationalism, isn't a problem rather than her support for genocide. It's for these reasons amongst others that she is loved by the right, particularly the far right, but the black community appears to regard her as a grifter.
David - your views on race are not evidence based. Bernie Sanders asserted accurately that the real black youth unemployment rate was 50%. A youth of any race who doesn't get into the job market has no future.
A 2017 report by the National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) found that just 18 percent of Black eighth-graders reach reading “proficiency.” And in 2015 NAEP found that only 17 percent of Black 12th graders were proficient at reading. This means that during normal times, fewer than two out of every ten African-American high school graduates have the baseline skills they need to succeed.
Unemployment and illiteracy are far, far more important than white supremacy.
Cheers
Hi David. Granted, certainly, Owens knows more about the black experience than either of us. But does she know more about history? That's not so clear. I think the quotes from Wikipedia show there is a great deal she doesn't understand, which unfortunately doesn't keep her from yapping about it.
You think I'm wrong. I think you're wrong. That's OK.
I don't want to argue too much, because last time we got going on the Proud Boys and white supremacy things got heated and I got heated and I wrote some strong things that after I worried would anger you so much it would drive you away from this blog, which I really don't want to do, because I consider you a long-time valuable contributor here and even though we usually disagree I consider you an Internet friend. I can come across way too strong in Internet comments, and I try to control that but when my dander gets up I often lose some control. I apologize if I have ever hurt your feelings in our discourse, and I will try to keep it more objective from here on out.
David - I provided data and statistics showing that unemployment and inadequate education are huge problems for millions of black Americans. I don’t believe that white supremacists are a problem of comparable magnitude. What data can you provide showing the magnitude of the white supremacist problem?
Hey DiC,
Why do we need to play misery Olympics? One bad thing doesn't make some other bad thing ok. We are capable of caring about two things at once.
David, earlier you said Antifa killed 20 people. I asked you for supporting evidence, and you neither gave any or retracted the claim -- you just went silent.
So what's the use of discussing statistics?
Layzej - What you say seems to make sense, but it isn't working. The US has spent many trillions of dollars on the "War on Poverty". It pretty much worked in a material sense. However, we still have a pretty large under-class of communities of people who aren't coping very well in our society. IMHO that's because the government is not doing certain things that matter.
Cheers
However, we still have a pretty large under-class of communities of people who aren't coping very well in our society. IMHO that's because the government is not doing certain things that matter.
You can't ignore the role of rising income inequality and government by-and-for the rich.
David -- Income inequality isn't the CAUSE of the problem; it's the RESULT of the problem. Jews, Chinese, Japanese, Indians, Nigerian immigrants, and Mormons all suffered from low income at one time. However, the average income of these groups now exceeds that of white Americans. Giving blacks money isn't going to fix their culture in a way that matches the cultures of the groups I mentioned.
IMHO many well-meaning liberal policies have contributed to a less effective black American culture:
-- High minimum wage levels discourage the hiring of poor black youths
-- Illegal immigrants take jobs away from blacks
-- Failing schools leave poor blacks unable to compete in today's economy. Democrats actively resist giving educational alternatives
-- Welfare rules strongly encourage fatherless families
-- Ineffective crime prevention in the inner cities discourages businesses and jobs in those locations. Riots and looting by ANTIFA and BLM have destroyed some black-owned businesses.
Cheers
Income inequality IS a partial cause of the problem. The affluent and rich are getting wealthier far faster than middle and lower class whites, blacks, Native Americans, hispanics and others are. In fact, middle class income hasn't increased in 30 years, while the stock markets have gone up tremendously in that time. The minimum wage has hardly gone up at all and is an insult. Many middle and lower class jobs have been sent abroad. The middle class and poor have had to settle for worse housing than they once had, worse health care, less nutritious food (fast food is cheapest), and on and on, whether they live in a rural or urban environment. These factors affect families and relationships. They affect mental health. They affect social structure and crime rates and communities. You want to blame only blacks for their own situation and that's ridiculous and close minded and simplistic.
Riots and looting by ANTIFA and BLM
Evidence?
--
Evidence for the 20 killed by Antifa? If you don't have it, be a man and admit it.
DiC: "What you say seems to make sense, but it isn't working."
What isn't working? I didn't say anything prescriptive.
You want to blame only blacks for their own situation...
David, your focus on blame is the wrong way to think. The right focus in in how to make things better.
Money helps some, but there's problem: giving people money encourages them to work at being given more money. E.g., here in CA the legislature is looking at slavery reparations. If slavery reparations are granted, that will encourage pressure for additional reasons to give money to blacks. "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."
P.S. I do blame Democratic policies that were designed in a way that discouraged black self-reliance. E.g., Teddy Kennedy refused to have a teen-age exception when he raised the minimum wage. That's one reason for high teen-age unemployment.
Why shouldn't slavery reparations be given?
Jews were given reparations for the Holocaust: Israel. Native Americans were given reservations, however measly.
--
BTW, where are those 20 killings by Antifa?
David, why should teenagers have to work for a pittance?
Here's the minimum wage adjusted for inflation:
https://files.epi.org/uploads/LongestPeriodChartVersion2.png
It's 17% less than it was 10 yrs ago. 31% less than in 1968.
Meanwhile, corporate profits have soared:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CP
as has income inequality:
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/SIPOVGINIUSA
If you don't have any evidence for the 20 claimed killings by Antifa, retract your claim.
why should teenagers have to work for a pittance?
-- Because the alternative might be not working at all. Recall Sen. Sanders's point that the real black youth unemployment rate was 50%!
-- Because working at a low paid job helps to build skills that allow advancement to higher paid jobs.
-- Because a non-working young person is more apt to get involved in looking for ways to game the system or in crime.
-- Because having a job builds self-respect and character.
Regarding murders - The anti-police campaign by BLM and ANTIFA led to a skyrocketing murder rate in many cities. E.g.,
Chicago Sees Its Most Violent Month In 28 Years As Murders, Shootings Skyrocket
Two dozen children under 10 years old have been shot in Chicago this year.
Chicago had 105 murders in July, more than double the 44 in July 2019, and 584 shooting victims is also up dramatically from the same period last year, with 308 reported in July 2019. July was the most violent month in 28 years.
https://blockclubchicago.org/2020/08/03/chicago-sees-its-most-violent-month-in-28-years-as-murders-shootings-skyrocket/
David, regarding the murders at the riots, I believe there have been over 20 homicides at riots initiated by BLM and ANTIFA. I don't intend to track down the exact details.
Cheers
David, regarding the murders at the riots, I believe there have been over 20 homicides at riots initiated by BLM and ANTIFA. I don't intend to track down the exact details.
Because you don't find any supporting evidence. Admit it.
It's a lie as bad as any of Trump's.
"legislature is looking at slavery reparations"
The UK paid reparations over slavery via the the slave compensation package. "You might expect this so-called “slave compensation” to have gone to the freed slaves to redress the injustices they suffered. Instead, the money went exclusively to the owners of slaves, who were being compensated for the loss of what had, until then, been considered their property." - https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/29/slavery-abolition-compensation-when-will-britain-face-up-to-its-crimes-against-humanity
And so the rich get richer.
David - Here's a USA Today article listing 15 homicides related to the George Floyd protests. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/06/18/fact-check-more-black-people-killed-police-than-floyd-protests/5323116002/
That was as of June 18. I will leave it to you to find the deaths since then. I'm sure you'll be able to find at least 5 more.
Quibbling about the exact number of deaths related to the George Floyd protests is less important than focusing on the much greater number of deaths that are occurring due to less effective police protection. In 2019, there were 7,484 black murder victims. If that number goes up 40%, that will be an additional 3,000 black murder victims.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/251877/murder-victims-in-the-us-by-race-ethnicity-and-gender/
Cheers
DiC: Your USAtoday link doesn't back up your claim. In fact it debunks it.
J.D. -- Look again. That linked USA Today article debunks a different claim, namely that, "More Black people have died in Floyd aftermath than in police shootings in 2019". However, the article specifically names 15 people who were killed in the Floyd protests.
Cheers
Layzej - IMHO, for Britain to give up slavery without a war was a great move. I don't care to second guess the way they achieved this excellent goal. They deserve congratulations, not criticism.
I think slavery reparations is a terrible idea.
-- It involves people who were never slave-owners giving money to people who were never slaves
-- It means officially identifying people by race, like Nazis or South Africa.
-- How does it deal with my half-black cousins? Does it apply a "one drop" rule, like the racists of old?
-- It ignores the trillions of dollars spent on the Great Society programs. Although these programs were not race-based, they were substantially designed to help blacks. In effect, trillions of dollars have already been paid in something like reparations.
-- It doesn't deal with the real underlying problems of the inner cities, such as high crime rate, poor education, high unemployment, fatherless families, etc.
-- It's racially divisive. It creates racial animosity.
Cheers
David,
A bad miss.
What JD said. There's no proof *any* of these deaths were due to Antifa. In fact, the USA Today article says:
"It's important to note that not all of the reported deaths happened at or during protests. Some of the deaths occurred in the same cities as protests or while protests were happening, but they did not occur at the site of those protests."
I will leave it to you to find the deaths since then
No. That's not the way it works. You make a claim, you have to prove it. Clearly, you can't. You can't come here and just make up whatever statistics you wish were true. And this isn't the first time you've done this here.
Layzej: Wow.
David, you're wrong about who gets the most "Great Society" program benefits:
"Americans Are Mistaken About Who Gets Welfare: People significantly overestimate the number of African-Americans benefiting from the largest programs"
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/americans-welfare-perceptions-survey_n_5a7880cde4b0d3df1d13f60b
In 2016:
Medicaid: 70 million beneficiaries.
43% white, 18% black, 30% Hispanic
Food stamps: 43 million beneficiaries.
36.2% white, 25.6% black, 17.2% Hispanic
"Trump Thinks Only Black People Are on Welfare, But Really, White Americans Receive Most Benefits," Ryan Sit, Newsweek, 1/12/18.
https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-welfare-black-white-780252
David - blacks are 13% of the population, so they receive a disproportionate share for the programs you mentioned. Some other programs, such as Head Start, are more disproportionately black.
As I said, I am not going to quibble about the number of deaths linked to George Floyd protests. Whether the number is 15 or 20 or 25 is less important than the thousands of additional black murder victims caused by BLM and ANTIFA.
Cheers
P.S. On a related note, see Rioters Trash Portland Restaurant After Antifa 'Reviewers' Target It, But the Black Owner Just Got the Last Word
https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2020/10/14/rioters-trash-portland-restaurant-after-antifa-reviewers-target-it-but-the-black-owner-just-got-the-last-word-n1049560
They trashed this black-owned business because its owner was not sufficiently a anti-police. BLM is not so much pro-black as it is anti-police.
Cheers
DiC: "IMHO, for Britain to give up slavery without a war was a great move. I don't care to second guess the way they achieved this excellent goal. They deserve congratulations, not criticism."
If the Republican mind considers reparations valuable only insofar as they can avoid a war.... that is a mindset that may backfire horribly.
DiC: color me skeptical. Pjmedia again and Andy Ngo again. You certainly seem to keep readers of this blog up to date with right wing propaganda. From Ngo's wiki page regarding a riot in a bar where members of a far right group ambushed counter protesters last year
Later that year, a video of Ngo surfaced where he is seen laughing, while standing next to the members of the far-right group planning the attack on anti-fascist patrons at the bar.[32][49][50][8] He later followed the group to the bar where they allegedly attacked the patrons. The video is part of the court documents in the ongoing lawsuit against Patriot Prayer members for allegedly causing the riot. One of the victims of the attack was knocked unconscious with a baton and suffered a broken vertebrae—Ngo later posted a video of her being attacked and identified her online.[51] Portland Mercury quoted an undercover antifascist embedded in Patriot Prayer saying that Andy Ngo has an "understanding" with the far-right group, that the group "protects him and he protects them".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Ngo
David - blacks are 13% of the population, so they receive a disproportionate share for the programs you mentioned.
Wow, you resent blacks being helped so much you want to keep track of every penny, huh? I find that rather racist. Don't people deserve help no matter what their color is? Shouldn't help going to the poor be colorblind?
As I said, I am not going to quibble about the number of deaths linked to George Floyd protests.
We're not "quibbling" here, David. You were wrong about Antifa deaths. You lied. Now you're lying about deaths at the George Floyd protests. Your mind is already made up and you're desperately trying to find facts to justify it.
Whether the number is 15 or 20 or 25 is less important than the thousands of additional black murder victims caused by BLM and ANTIFA.
What the hell are you talking about now AND WHERE IS THE PROOF OF THIS?
David, all you ever link to are propagandist conservative sites. (Victoria Taft is bottom of the barrel.)
In fact, the 10/12, Sunday night protest in Portland didn't involve Antifa or BLM -- it was an “Indigenous Peoples Day of Rage” organized for Columbus Day. I don't support breaking windows, but it did get people's attention where a peaceful rally would not have. (Anyway Columbus isn't much celebrated these days in the US, which is rightly so IMO.) Read some real journalism about that protest, instead of Victoria Taft:
https://www.oregonlive.com/portland/2020/10/protesters-topple-portland-statues-of-theodore-roosevelt-abraham-lincoln-in-day-of-rage.html
David - your link says,
The group, about 200 strong, marched through downtown Portland, at one point occupying all four lanes of West Burnside Street. Most dressed head-to-toe in black. Many wore body armor, carried shields or wielded night sticks and other weapons.
Dressed in black...Body armor...shields...wielded weapons. These are typical characteristics of ANTIFA. It sounds to me like the same old rioters, just using a different excuse to riot.
Cheers
Dressed in black...Body armor...shields...wielded weapons. These are typical characteristics of ANTIFA. It sounds to me like the same old rioters, just using a different excuse to riot.
The article doesn't say "Antifa," does it?
These Oregonian reporters have covered a lot of protests by now, I'm sure. They recognize a lot of protesters by now, I'm sure. They'd say Antifa is that's what they saw, I'm sure.
You make up "facts" to fit your preconceived notions. All the time.
David - it's amusing that you accuse me of making up facts based on facts you made up. "I'm sure" is what one says when he lacks evidence of something.
Cheers
DiC 1) "for Britain to give up slavery without a war (by paying reparations to slave owners) was a great move"
Slaves themselves were not a credible threat to peace, and so no reparations were due. But now:
DiC 2) "Dressed in black...Body armor...shields...wielded weapons."
It seems these folks, whoever they are, may be on their way to earning concessions from DiC and his ilk? Might makes right I suppose. Otherwise it's "pull yourself up by your bootstraps and put up with whet ever indignities we may send your way"
Bah.
Layzej - You and I are talking about different things. Your word "due" says you're talking about morality. I agree that slaves were morally due reparations, but there was no way that was going to happen, neither in England nor in the US. Attitudes in the 19th century made that outcome unimaginable.
I'm talking about real world practicality. In the US, freeing the slaves was achieved by a bloody war in which as many as one out of ten white man of military age died. England ended slavery 30 years earlier and with no loss of life.
Cheers
David - it's amusing that you accuse me of making up facts based on facts you made up. "I'm sure" is what one says when he lacks evidence of something.
Still awaiting your proof of "thousands of additional black murder victims caused by BLM and ANTIFA." (Let's not pretend we're on the same scale here.)
Or are you going to go silent on this claim as well?
David, where is your proof of "thousands of additional black murder victims caused by BLM and ANTIFA."
Be a man for just once and answer up.
If not I get to call you a bald-faced liar from here on out.
David -- it's a fact that the rate of black murder victims is up dramatically in inner cities throughout the country. I don't have complete countrywide YTD figures, but based on individual city reports, it looks like a 30% or more increase. E.g.,
--"Murder in Chicago was up 37% in the first half of this year, compared to the same period in 2019."
-- "A Violent August in N.Y.C.: Shootings Double, and Murder Is Up by 50%
The city recorded 242 shootings in August, up from 91 last year, continuing a summer spike in gun violence that has become an issue in the presidential race."
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/nyregion/nyc-shootings-murders.html
A 30% increase in black murder victims will be an increase of over 2,000 per year.
It's a conclusion that the cause of the increase is reduced effectiveness of police protection, due to the anti-police campaign being conducted by BLM and ANTIFA. Of course, cause can never be established with certainty. In this case, there's a lot of evidence, including
-- A number of jurisdictions are reducing police budgets
-- A number of individual police describe the change in the way police do their job
-- Many police are leaving the force. In a situation like this, the best police are more likely to leave, because they're more apt to have alternatives.
-- Common sense.
Let me elaborate on the last point: We've seen people like George Zimmerman and Darren Wilson, who did nothing wrong, nevertheless get hounded, investigated, and prosecuted. Their reputations destroyed. Who would want to risk this situation? If you're attacked by a black person, he might harm you or kill you. If you kill him in self-defence, your life might be ruined. So, the obvious move for a policeman in the inner city is to try to avoid being in this situation. That means, less aggressive policing.
Further evidence is that this happened before. There was a rise in black murder victims in 2015-2016, following the killing in Ferguson. That led to a rise of around 2,000 black murder victims per year.
Wikipedia says,
In 2015, Rahm Emanuel, the mayor of Chicago, suggested nationwide backlash against police brutality led to officers disengaging, which, in turn, led to violent crime increasing.[6]
Black Lives Matter protest showing posters in favor of defunding the police and anti-police sentiments.
In May 2016, FBI Director James Comey used the term "viral video effect" when commenting on significant increases in homicide rates in many large U.S. cities in the first half of the year. Comey specifically singled out the cities of Chicago (where murders were up 54 percent from 2015) and Las Vegas.[7][8][9] The term was also used by Chuck Rosenberg, director of the DEA.[5]
In October 2016, the Ferguson effect was cited in a case in which a Chicago police officer was beaten for several minutes by a suspect but chose not to draw her service weapon, worried of the media attention that would come if she were to shoot the suspect.[10]
Cheers
David: complete fucking bullshit. None of this means murders by Antifa or BLM. You’re full of shit with this kind of crap and I’m sick of it. You’re a bald faced liar who should be ashamed of himself.
David, do you actually understand what it means to PROVE something? Because I can’t see that you do.
Trump's America: "it's a fact that the rate of black murder victims is up dramatically in inner cities throughout the country."
It's falling apart at the seams.
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